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	<title>Comments on: The New York Times Places a Bet on the Bay Area</title>
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	<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/</link>
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		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-6702</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-6702</guid>
		<description>I agree with his assessment. The Bay Area coverage is decent enough, but only a couple of articles have been noticed much around here. As I noted in my comment above (10/18), the two-day-a-week publication schedule makes it hard for the Times to do anything except follow up on news which has already been covered by the local press. They could make better use of the new blog to fill in the gaps, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with his assessment. The Bay Area coverage is decent enough, but only a couple of articles have been noticed much around here. As I noted in my comment above (10/18), the two-day-a-week publication schedule makes it hard for the Times to do anything except follow up on news which has already been covered by the local press. They could make better use of the new blog to fill in the gaps, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: nnyhav</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-6697</link>
		<dc:creator>nnyhav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-6697</guid>
		<description>I get my news about NYT in SF via VQR:
http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2009/11/23/bay-area-editions/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get my news about NYT in SF via VQR:<br />
<a href="http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2009/11/23/bay-area-editions/" rel="nofollow">http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2009/11/23/bay-area-editions/</a></p>
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		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5654</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5654</guid>
		<description>Carol: I actually don&#039;t think you ever mentioned that to me before. I&#039;m curious: was this same-day delivery of the daily paper? Where were the papers printed and distributed from? I didn&#039;t know that the Times had any kind of national home-delivery programs back in the 60&#039;s. I always assumed that national home-delivery came later, in the 80&#039;s, when they started transmitting pages by satellite to printing plants around the country (local copies are printed in Walnut Creek).

As for their ambitions, they are certainly long-standing and long-term, and they don&#039;t stop at the national border. The Times is well on their way to transforming the International Herald Tribune---which until a couple of years ago was jointly owned by the Washington Post---into &lt;a href=&quot;http://global.nytimes.com/?iht&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;The Global Edition of The New York Times.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol: I actually don&#8217;t think you ever mentioned that to me before. I&#8217;m curious: was this same-day delivery of the daily paper? Where were the papers printed and distributed from? I didn&#8217;t know that the Times had any kind of national home-delivery programs back in the 60&#8242;s. I always assumed that national home-delivery came later, in the 80&#8242;s, when they started transmitting pages by satellite to printing plants around the country (local copies are printed in Walnut Creek).</p>
<p>As for their ambitions, they are certainly long-standing and long-term, and they don&#8217;t stop at the national border. The Times is well on their way to transforming the International Herald Tribune&#8212;which until a couple of years ago was jointly owned by the Washington Post&#8212;into <a href="http://global.nytimes.com/?iht" rel="nofollow">&#8220;The Global Edition of The New York Times.&#8221;</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carol Polk</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5635</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Polk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 04:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5635</guid>
		<description>In the early 1960s, my first husband and I had a home delivery service for the NYT in Dallas TX (I may have mentioned this before in another context).  We lasted several years, during which the Times circulation people tried to get us to move to California and begin a home delivery service out here.  They wanted us to come here but we were focused on grad school and academia so we declined.  That paper has long-term ambitions, for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the early 1960s, my first husband and I had a home delivery service for the NYT in Dallas TX (I may have mentioned this before in another context).  We lasted several years, during which the Times circulation people tried to get us to move to California and begin a home delivery service out here.  They wanted us to come here but we were focused on grad school and academia so we declined.  That paper has long-term ambitions, for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5548</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5548</guid>
		<description>Two pages twice a week certainly won&#039;t entice anyone who wants comprehensive coverage of local topics, but I could see it luring people who are mostly looking for the more substantial national/international/business/arts coverage that the Times provides, with just a bit of local coverage to supplement the local TV news or websites or wherever else they get their local news. Lots of people in Oakland subscribe to the NYT without subscribing to the Tribune (or the Chronicle), and for some of them, 4 pages a week of Bay Area coverage could be one factor in deciding whether to cancel their subscriptions or not

I hope the Times makes an effort to cover local stories in a timely way, rather than the typical NYT practice of coming into these regional stories on the late side, after they have been thoroughly covered by local media. I thought the article on our new police chief did a pretty good job of summing up the challenges he faces, but it was pretty much a rehash of stuff that was covered by the local press a month ago. I was surprised to hear that the NYT&#039;s SF bureau now has 10 staffers in it (a decade ago, I think it was about half of that---maybe one national reporter, two tech/business reporters, one stringer and an office manager, or something like that). So they certainly have enough people to do real-time coverage of local issues---it just depends whether they choose to actively compete with the local papers, or are content to sit back and cover stories in a more Timesian fashion.

Obviously the twice-a-week publication schedule makes it harder to do daily coverage of stories, but if they push their reporters to be aggressive, and use the new &quot;Bay Area&quot; blog in a good way, then it&#039;s not impossible that they could actually break local news or cover some local stories as thoroughly as the local papers. (And it&#039;s not as if the Chronicle provides comprehensive coverage of the East Bay either!)

As I said in the post, I have no idea whether this effort will be a success or not (in journalistic terms or in business terms), but I&#039;ll definitely be following their efforts with a fair amount of interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two pages twice a week certainly won&#8217;t entice anyone who wants comprehensive coverage of local topics, but I could see it luring people who are mostly looking for the more substantial national/international/business/arts coverage that the Times provides, with just a bit of local coverage to supplement the local TV news or websites or wherever else they get their local news. Lots of people in Oakland subscribe to the NYT without subscribing to the Tribune (or the Chronicle), and for some of them, 4 pages a week of Bay Area coverage could be one factor in deciding whether to cancel their subscriptions or not</p>
<p>I hope the Times makes an effort to cover local stories in a timely way, rather than the typical NYT practice of coming into these regional stories on the late side, after they have been thoroughly covered by local media. I thought the article on our new police chief did a pretty good job of summing up the challenges he faces, but it was pretty much a rehash of stuff that was covered by the local press a month ago. I was surprised to hear that the NYT&#8217;s SF bureau now has 10 staffers in it (a decade ago, I think it was about half of that&#8212;maybe one national reporter, two tech/business reporters, one stringer and an office manager, or something like that). So they certainly have enough people to do real-time coverage of local issues&#8212;it just depends whether they choose to actively compete with the local papers, or are content to sit back and cover stories in a more Timesian fashion.</p>
<p>Obviously the twice-a-week publication schedule makes it harder to do daily coverage of stories, but if they push their reporters to be aggressive, and use the new &#8220;Bay Area&#8221; blog in a good way, then it&#8217;s not impossible that they could actually break local news or cover some local stories as thoroughly as the local papers. (And it&#8217;s not as if the Chronicle provides comprehensive coverage of the East Bay either!)</p>
<p>As I said in the post, I have no idea whether this effort will be a success or not (in journalistic terms or in business terms), but I&#8217;ll definitely be following their efforts with a fair amount of interest.</p>
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		<title>By: MontclairOak</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5543</link>
		<dc:creator>MontclairOak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 02:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5543</guid>
		<description>Today I picked up a print copy of the Grey Lady to get a read on this very-first Sunday paper with the new Bay Area section.  There&#039;s a little sticker on the front page enticing buyers.  Then you flip behind the New York pages, and is basically two pages&#039; worth of editorial.  How much of a splash will this make?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today I picked up a print copy of the Grey Lady to get a read on this very-first Sunday paper with the new Bay Area section.  There&#8217;s a little sticker on the front page enticing buyers.  Then you flip behind the New York pages, and is basically two pages&#8217; worth of editorial.  How much of a splash will this make?</p>
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		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5506</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5506</guid>
		<description>I doubt the Times company was even hoping to get close to what they paid for the Globe. If I remember correctly, they paid a little over a billion dollars for the Globe in 1991. I wouldn&#039;t be so sure that you could get anyone to pay 1.1 billion for the &lt;em&gt;entire NYT Company&lt;/em&gt; these days: that Mexican multibillionaire paid $128 million for a 6.4% share of the company a little over a year ago, which would put the total value of the company at about $2 billion---but the company&#039;s stock (not to mention the prognosis for the newspaper industry) has gone significantly down since then, so the whole company really may not be worth any more than what they paid for the Globe almost 20 years ago (it&#039;s hard to really judge how much they could get for the NYT Co, in part because they have an unusual public/private ownership system, and in part because the cachet and prestige of &quot;The New York Times&quot; might enable them to sell the company for more than it&#039;s worth in strictly business terms).

I assume the Times Company wrung some big profits out of the Globe in the early years of ownership, but it seems like they&#039;ve been having significant buyer&#039;s remorse over the past couple of years. The Globe is better than a lot of other regional papers around the country, that&#039;s for sure---but it&#039;s also not necessarily saying much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt the Times company was even hoping to get close to what they paid for the Globe. If I remember correctly, they paid a little over a billion dollars for the Globe in 1991. I wouldn&#8217;t be so sure that you could get anyone to pay 1.1 billion for the <em>entire NYT Company</em> these days: that Mexican multibillionaire paid $128 million for a 6.4% share of the company a little over a year ago, which would put the total value of the company at about $2 billion&#8212;but the company&#8217;s stock (not to mention the prognosis for the newspaper industry) has gone significantly down since then, so the whole company really may not be worth any more than what they paid for the Globe almost 20 years ago (it&#8217;s hard to really judge how much they could get for the NYT Co, in part because they have an unusual public/private ownership system, and in part because the cachet and prestige of &#8220;The New York Times&#8221; might enable them to sell the company for more than it&#8217;s worth in strictly business terms).</p>
<p>I assume the Times Company wrung some big profits out of the Globe in the early years of ownership, but it seems like they&#8217;ve been having significant buyer&#8217;s remorse over the past couple of years. The Globe is better than a lot of other regional papers around the country, that&#8217;s for sure&#8212;but it&#8217;s also not necessarily saying much.</p>
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		<title>By: ruth gutmann</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5505</link>
		<dc:creator>ruth gutmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5505</guid>
		<description>As for the NYT and its relationship with the Globe: yesterday they told the Globe staff that they will not sell (perhaps no one offered them even close to what they paid), because the Globe&#039;s situation has improved.  The Globe announced this in a front page headline.
But today they came back and said that more salary and benefits cuts of around 10% (!) are likely.

It has struck me -- and a lot of others more expert in newspaper production than I, that the Globe, despite all the discouragement the NYT has dished up, has on the whole done a very good job in covering the Commonwealth, often in unexpected ways.  Unfortunately too often there are too many sob stories for my appetite for this stuff, but perhaps the Globe feels a special sympathy for those folk. 

In the NYT a couple of days ago (?) Peter Baker reported that Joe Biden has been joined by others in his opinions on Afghanistan.  That is what the headline said. The article contained not a single name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the NYT and its relationship with the Globe: yesterday they told the Globe staff that they will not sell (perhaps no one offered them even close to what they paid), because the Globe&#8217;s situation has improved.  The Globe announced this in a front page headline.<br />
But today they came back and said that more salary and benefits cuts of around 10% (!) are likely.</p>
<p>It has struck me &#8212; and a lot of others more expert in newspaper production than I, that the Globe, despite all the discouragement the NYT has dished up, has on the whole done a very good job in covering the Commonwealth, often in unexpected ways.  Unfortunately too often there are too many sob stories for my appetite for this stuff, but perhaps the Globe feels a special sympathy for those folk. </p>
<p>In the NYT a couple of days ago (?) Peter Baker reported that Joe Biden has been joined by others in his opinions on Afghanistan.  That is what the headline said. The article contained not a single name.</p>
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		<title>By: wordnerd</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5496</link>
		<dc:creator>wordnerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5496</guid>
		<description>If you read the Times article about Oakland&#039;s new police chief, you are advised to check out this one, &quot;of related interest&quot;: 

Critic’s Notebook: Wine Lists That Elevate the Cellar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read the Times article about Oakland&#8217;s new police chief, you are advised to check out this one, &#8220;of related interest&#8221;: </p>
<p>Critic’s Notebook: Wine Lists That Elevate the Cellar</p>
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		<title>By: wordnerd</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/10/15/the-new-york-times-places-a-bet-on-the-bay-area/#comment-5495</link>
		<dc:creator>wordnerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=1485#comment-5495</guid>
		<description>The Times started enhancing its coverage of the Boston area about 20 years ago, and then they met their &quot;longer-term objective of this initiative...to work with local journalists and news organizations in a collaborative way&quot; by buying the Globe. This had its ups and downs, but recently they re-bought the Globe in a way (decidng not to sell it). Maybe the Chronicle is next...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Times started enhancing its coverage of the Boston area about 20 years ago, and then they met their &#8220;longer-term objective of this initiative&#8230;to work with local journalists and news organizations in a collaborative way&#8221; by buying the Globe. This had its ups and downs, but recently they re-bought the Globe in a way (decidng not to sell it). Maybe the Chronicle is next&#8230;</p>
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