<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Venice by the Bay</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 06:18:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-316</guid>
		<description>The depths of a deep depression would (will?) look quite different, I think.  How, I don&#039;t know, either.  Fewer cars, period?  More potholes?  More beggars?  More construction of grand public places?  Shabbier chic?  More crime? Bars on windows?  We&#039;ll see...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The depths of a deep depression would (will?) look quite different, I think.  How, I don&#8217;t know, either.  Fewer cars, period?  More potholes?  More beggars?  More construction of grand public places?  Shabbier chic?  More crime? Bars on windows?  We&#8217;ll see&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-312</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-312</guid>
		<description>eric: not much with my own eyes, except my anecdotal sense that there are many more empty storefronts around, and a few people I know have either lost work or seen colleagues laid off (the LA Times newsroom staff has famously gone from 1200 to fewer than 600 just in this decade, and further layoffs/buyouts are in the works). Interestingly, the houses I see for sale around my neighborhood seem to stay on the market for less time than they did a year ago. This could just mean that more sellers are low-balling their asking prices or are accepting low-ball offers (or choosing not to try to sell their homes at all), but I&#039;ve been surprised that I haven&#039;t seen as many unsold or foreclosed homes in my neighborhood as I did last year.

It&#039;s hard for me to know what the depths of a deep depression would actually look like. More closed businesses, for sure, and more foreclosed homes, and fewer new cars on the street, but what else? More homeless around? More day laborers standing on street corners hoping to get picked for a few hours of manual labor? I assume so, but there are already a fair number of both around Oakland, and it would take a really dramatic increase in order for me to tell the difference.

My neck of the woods is probably not an ideal case study either; the PRB is a lot like the PRC, and Oakland has always had more than its share of visible poverty and blight, so increases in poverty and blight are hard to spot. I assume the changes are most dramatically visible in the recently-built exurbs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric: not much with my own eyes, except my anecdotal sense that there are many more empty storefronts around, and a few people I know have either lost work or seen colleagues laid off (the LA Times newsroom staff has famously gone from 1200 to fewer than 600 just in this decade, and further layoffs/buyouts are in the works). Interestingly, the houses I see for sale around my neighborhood seem to stay on the market for less time than they did a year ago. This could just mean that more sellers are low-balling their asking prices or are accepting low-ball offers (or choosing not to try to sell their homes at all), but I&#8217;ve been surprised that I haven&#8217;t seen as many unsold or foreclosed homes in my neighborhood as I did last year.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard for me to know what the depths of a deep depression would actually look like. More closed businesses, for sure, and more foreclosed homes, and fewer new cars on the street, but what else? More homeless around? More day laborers standing on street corners hoping to get picked for a few hours of manual labor? I assume so, but there are already a fair number of both around Oakland, and it would take a really dramatic increase in order for me to tell the difference.</p>
<p>My neck of the woods is probably not an ideal case study either; the PRB is a lot like the PRC, and Oakland has always had more than its share of visible poverty and blight, so increases in poverty and blight are hard to spot. I assume the changes are most dramatically visible in the recently-built exurbs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 01:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-308</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be curious to hear if you see things you see with your own eyes that reflect the country&#039;s current ailments.  I feel strangely insulated, myself.  Maybe a FEW more empty storefronts, but nothing, yet, that looks like the full-on depression we seem to be descending into.  (And articles like today&#039;s front-page one about the guy whose friend gave him a janitor&#039;s job as a way to get maintain seamless health coverage don&#039;t seem particularly convincing, either.)  What&#039;s it like beyond the PRC, out there in the real world?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be curious to hear if you see things you see with your own eyes that reflect the country&#8217;s current ailments.  I feel strangely insulated, myself.  Maybe a FEW more empty storefronts, but nothing, yet, that looks like the full-on depression we seem to be descending into.  (And articles like today&#8217;s front-page one about the guy whose friend gave him a janitor&#8217;s job as a way to get maintain seamless health coverage don&#8217;t seem particularly convincing, either.)  What&#8217;s it like beyond the PRC, out there in the real world?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Ruth: I have some guesses about why water is so attractive to us too, and they are probably similar to your guesses. (Once we start seeing &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; human traits as evolutionary adaptations, it&#039;s hard not to start seeing &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; human traits as evolutionary adaptations.)

I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ve ever seen the sprawling suburban developments out in the desert in Southern California and Arizona, but when they build them, they often put an artificial lake in the middle, and then give the development a name like &quot;Lago Vista Hacienda&quot; or something ridiculous like that. In order to fool people into thinking that moving to a suburban development hundreds of miles away from any water was a reasonable thing to do, they had to build fake water sources next to the properties in order to fulfill people&#039;s visceral water-yearnings. (Many of those new &quot;luxury&quot; developments will probably be slums or ghost towns within the next couple of years; some of them practically are already.)

I&#039;m preoccupied with the same things you are, but I don&#039;t feel as if I have anything new to say about those matters, so I&#039;m trying to stick to things I can see with my own eyes or have some first-hand knowledge of, like journalism. Write what you know, as they say...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruth: I have some guesses about why water is so attractive to us too, and they are probably similar to your guesses. (Once we start seeing <em>any</em> human traits as evolutionary adaptations, it&#8217;s hard not to start seeing <em>all</em> human traits as evolutionary adaptations.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve ever seen the sprawling suburban developments out in the desert in Southern California and Arizona, but when they build them, they often put an artificial lake in the middle, and then give the development a name like &#8220;Lago Vista Hacienda&#8221; or something ridiculous like that. In order to fool people into thinking that moving to a suburban development hundreds of miles away from any water was a reasonable thing to do, they had to build fake water sources next to the properties in order to fulfill people&#8217;s visceral water-yearnings. (Many of those new &#8220;luxury&#8221; developments will probably be slums or ghost towns within the next couple of years; some of them practically are already.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m preoccupied with the same things you are, but I don&#8217;t feel as if I have anything new to say about those matters, so I&#8217;m trying to stick to things I can see with my own eyes or have some first-hand knowledge of, like journalism. Write what you know, as they say&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ruth gutmann</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>ruth gutmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-299</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve revisted your lagoon pictures precisely because they have stayed in my mind. What makes water so attractive to us? (I have some guesses.)

Before looking for a college, Hannie actually said that it had to be near a river!  The Charles should have filled the bill..

We may be looking for water more than for oil in the future. On a cheerier note: I loved Amsterdam when I saw the Grachts (canals) in 1939.

Your current emphases on urbanism and environment in the larger sense are well chosen and are a relief, at least to me, from our daily preoccupations: how long before we recover from what ails this country?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve revisted your lagoon pictures precisely because they have stayed in my mind. What makes water so attractive to us? (I have some guesses.)</p>
<p>Before looking for a college, Hannie actually said that it had to be near a river!  The Charles should have filled the bill..</p>
<p>We may be looking for water more than for oil in the future. On a cheerier note: I loved Amsterdam when I saw the Grachts (canals) in 1939.</p>
<p>Your current emphases on urbanism and environment in the larger sense are well chosen and are a relief, at least to me, from our daily preoccupations: how long before we recover from what ails this country?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-296</guid>
		<description>Ruth: no gondolas; just some paddle boats and canoes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruth: no gondolas; just some paddle boats and canoes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ruth gutmann</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>ruth gutmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-292</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed your pictures. The houses seem to have very little space between them, and that&#039;s probably why the lagoons are not easily seen. The water must be very still and clear, judging by the reflections of the houses. The old houses sure look good--at least from the outside. Any gondolas on those lagoons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed your pictures. The houses seem to have very little space between them, and that&#8217;s probably why the lagoons are not easily seen. The water must be very still and clear, judging by the reflections of the houses. The old houses sure look good&#8211;at least from the outside. Any gondolas on those lagoons?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-290</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~2680~250053:Boston--Engraved-by-G-W--Boynton-?qvq=w4s:/where/Boston+(Mass.)/;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&amp;mi=132&amp;trs=144&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The resolution of their cameras wasn&#039;t so great back then.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~2680~250053:Boston--Engraved-by-G-W--Boynton-?qvq=w4s:/where/Boston+(Mass.)/;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&#038;mi=132&#038;trs=144" rel="nofollow">The resolution of their cameras wasn&#8217;t so great back then.</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wordnerd</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator>wordnerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-288</guid>
		<description>Those aerial photos are terrific. Now--can you find some of Boston before Back Bay was filled in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those aerial photos are terrific. Now&#8211;can you find some of Boston before Back Bay was filled in?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/2009/02/23/venice-by-the-bay/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fragmentaryevidence.com/?p=374#comment-286</guid>
		<description>The lagoons are easy to miss. As I mentioned, they&#039;re mostly surrounded by private property, so even if you are in the neighborhood, you only get occasional glimpses of them unless you know where to look. I had to poke around quite a bit in order to take some of the photos in this post.

I worked on the decommissioned NAS for about 3 years, and I used to shop at the TJ&#039;s at the South Shore mall (recently renamed, absurdly, &quot;Alameda Towne Centre&quot; &lt;em&gt;[sic]&lt;/em&gt;) a block from the lagoons, but I didn&#039;t know anything about them until recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lagoons are easy to miss. As I mentioned, they&#8217;re mostly surrounded by private property, so even if you are in the neighborhood, you only get occasional glimpses of them unless you know where to look. I had to poke around quite a bit in order to take some of the photos in this post.</p>
<p>I worked on the decommissioned NAS for about 3 years, and I used to shop at the TJ&#8217;s at the South Shore mall (recently renamed, absurdly, &#8220;Alameda Towne Centre&#8221; <em>[sic]</em>) a block from the lagoons, but I didn&#8217;t know anything about them until recently.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

